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	<title>Kommentare für Jakoblog</title>
	<atom:link href="http://jakoblog.de/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://jakoblog.de</link>
	<description>Das Weblog von Jakob Voß</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:48:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Kommentar zu DAIA-Server erstellen mittels Screenscraping von jakob</title>
		<link>http://jakoblog.de/2012/02/22/daia-server-erstellen-mittels-screenscrapin/comment-page-1/#comment-308371</link>
		<dc:creator>jakob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jakoblog.de/?p=1233#comment-308371</guid>
		<description>Die Abfrage per ISBN wird nur für einige Kataloge unterstützt, darunter (noch) nicht der GVK. Probieren sie mal folgende Abfragen:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://daia.gbv.de/?id=opac-de-960:isbn:3804685153&amp;format=xml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://daia.gbv.de/?id=opac-de-960:isbn:3804685153&amp;format=xml&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://daia.gbv.de/?id=opac-de-89:isbn:9781457715402&amp;format=xml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://daia.gbv.de/?id=opac-de-89:isbn:9781457715402&amp;format=xml&lt;/a&gt;

Für &lt;a href=&quot;http://opac.tib.uni-hannover.de/DB=1/PPNSET?PPN=684255529&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;die elektronische Ausgabe&lt;/a&gt; in der zweiten Abfrage plane ich den Service-Typ &quot;online&quot; einzuführen, sobald jemand weiß, wie aus den PICA+ Daten zweifelsfrei ermittelt werden kann, ob eine digitale Publikation auch außerhalb der Bibliotheks nutzbar ist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Die Abfrage per ISBN wird nur für einige Kataloge unterstützt, darunter (noch) nicht der GVK. Probieren sie mal folgende Abfragen:</p>
<p><a href="http://daia.gbv.de/?id=opac-de-960:isbn:3804685153&#038;format=xml" rel="nofollow">http://daia.gbv.de/?id=opac-de-960:isbn:3804685153&#038;format=xml</a></p>
<p><a href="http://daia.gbv.de/?id=opac-de-89:isbn:9781457715402&#038;format=xml" rel="nofollow">http://daia.gbv.de/?id=opac-de-89:isbn:9781457715402&#038;format=xml</a></p>
<p>Für <a href="http://opac.tib.uni-hannover.de/DB=1/PPNSET?PPN=684255529" rel="nofollow">die elektronische Ausgabe</a> in der zweiten Abfrage plane ich den Service-Typ &#8220;online&#8221; einzuführen, sobald jemand weiß, wie aus den PICA+ Daten zweifelsfrei ermittelt werden kann, ob eine digitale Publikation auch außerhalb der Bibliotheks nutzbar ist.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Kommentar zu DAIA-Server erstellen mittels Screenscraping von Oliver</title>
		<link>http://jakoblog.de/2012/02/22/daia-server-erstellen-mittels-screenscrapin/comment-page-1/#comment-308364</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jakoblog.de/?p=1233#comment-308364</guid>
		<description>Elmar: wenn ich die Fehlermeldung richtig verstehe, dann kann der DAIA-Server nicht nach ISBNs suchen. Er ist auch eigentlich nicht für die Suche gedacht, daher ist vermutlich nur die Referenzierung über PPNs (oder vielleicht noch EPNs, wie siehts aus, Jakob?) möglich.

Wer eher PHP-affin ist, kann auch zu &lt;a href=&quot;http://sourceforge.net/projects/daia/files/phpdaia-0.2.tar.gz/download&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;phpDaia&lt;/a&gt; greifen. Auch phpDaia kommt mit einem Beispielscript für LBS-Kataloge daher. Es basiert (leider) ebenfalls auf massivem Screenscraping. 

Wie ich auch gerade erst erfahren habe, gibt es für LBS4 (ab Version 2.8.2) auch eine Verfügbarkeits-API - zwar kein DAIA, aber im Vergleich zu PICA+ vielleicht einfacher zu verarbeiten und in DAIA zu mappen. Vielleicht ergibt sich mit dieser Schnittstelle ja noch die Möglichkeit, ein bisschen vom Screenscraping abzuweichen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elmar: wenn ich die Fehlermeldung richtig verstehe, dann kann der DAIA-Server nicht nach ISBNs suchen. Er ist auch eigentlich nicht für die Suche gedacht, daher ist vermutlich nur die Referenzierung über PPNs (oder vielleicht noch EPNs, wie siehts aus, Jakob?) möglich.</p>
<p>Wer eher PHP-affin ist, kann auch zu <a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/daia/files/phpdaia-0.2.tar.gz/download" rel="nofollow">phpDaia</a> greifen. Auch phpDaia kommt mit einem Beispielscript für LBS-Kataloge daher. Es basiert (leider) ebenfalls auf massivem Screenscraping. </p>
<p>Wie ich auch gerade erst erfahren habe, gibt es für LBS4 (ab Version 2.8.2) auch eine Verfügbarkeits-API &#8211; zwar kein DAIA, aber im Vergleich zu PICA+ vielleicht einfacher zu verarbeiten und in DAIA zu mappen. Vielleicht ergibt sich mit dieser Schnittstelle ja noch die Möglichkeit, ein bisschen vom Screenscraping abzuweichen.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Kommentar zu DAIA-Server erstellen mittels Screenscraping von Elmar</title>
		<link>http://jakoblog.de/2012/02/22/daia-server-erstellen-mittels-screenscrapin/comment-page-1/#comment-308356</link>
		<dc:creator>Elmar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 14:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jakoblog.de/?p=1233#comment-308356</guid>
		<description>Toll!
Ich habe soeben versucht, den Service zu testen und stoße stets auf Identifier-Fehler.
Z.B.
http://daia.gbv.de/?id=gvk:isbn:9781457715402&amp;format=rdfxml

Mache ich da etwas falsch?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Toll!<br />
Ich habe soeben versucht, den Service zu testen und stoße stets auf Identifier-Fehler.<br />
Z.B.<br />
<a href="http://daia.gbv.de/?id=gvk:isbn:9781457715402&#038;format=rdfxml" rel="nofollow">http://daia.gbv.de/?id=gvk:isbn:9781457715402&#038;format=rdfxml</a></p>
<p>Mache ich da etwas falsch?</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Kommentar zu Wozu mobile Bibliothekskataloge? von Weber</title>
		<link>http://jakoblog.de/2011/09/18/wozu-mobile-bibliothekskataloge/comment-page-1/#comment-307058</link>
		<dc:creator>Weber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 18:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jakoblog.de/?p=1112#comment-307058</guid>
		<description>Die Idee eines mobilen Biblio-Kataloges ist gut, aber deren Umsetzung wird wohl noch 10 Jahre dauern. Es mangelt den meisten Universitätsbibliotheken am &quot;know-how&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Die Idee eines mobilen Biblio-Kataloges ist gut, aber deren Umsetzung wird wohl noch 10 Jahre dauern. Es mangelt den meisten Universitätsbibliotheken am &#8220;know-how&#8221;.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Kommentar zu Die Grenzen des Semantic Web von dr0ide</title>
		<link>http://jakoblog.de/2011/11/02/die-grenzen-des-semantic-web/comment-page-1/#comment-304909</link>
		<dc:creator>dr0ide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 13:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jakoblog.de/?p=1144#comment-304909</guid>
		<description>Es gibt sicherlich viele andere Beispiele für das Problem, z.B. warum gerade so etwas wie &quot;owl:sameAs&quot; mit extremer Vorsicht zu verwenden ist. In der Wikipedia gibt es ja diverse Sprachversionen für ein Thema. Diese Beziehungen der Sprachversionen könnte folglich übersetzt werden mit &quot;owl:sameAs&quot;. Dies macht die dbpedia aber sinnvollerweise NICHT, denn das würde z.B. hierzu führen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_department 
owl:sameAs 
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B0_%28%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5%29
owl:sameAs
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehrstuhl
owl:sameAs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor#Named_professorships

(Quelle: https://twitter.com/#!/hauschke/status/159249839480258560 ) 

Und das ist wirklich nicht gut.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Es gibt sicherlich viele andere Beispiele für das Problem, z.B. warum gerade so etwas wie &#8220;owl:sameAs&#8221; mit extremer Vorsicht zu verwenden ist. In der Wikipedia gibt es ja diverse Sprachversionen für ein Thema. Diese Beziehungen der Sprachversionen könnte folglich übersetzt werden mit &#8220;owl:sameAs&#8221;. Dies macht die dbpedia aber sinnvollerweise NICHT, denn das würde z.B. hierzu führen:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_department" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_department</a><br />
owl:sameAs<br />
<a href="http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B0_%28%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5%29" rel="nofollow">http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B0_%28%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5%29</a><br />
owl:sameAs<br />
<a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehrstuhl" rel="nofollow">http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehrstuhl</a><br />
owl:sameAs<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor#Named_professorships" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor#Named_professorships</a></p>
<p>(Quelle: <a href="https://twitter.com/#!/hauschke/status/159249839480258560" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/#!/hauschke/status/159249839480258560</a> ) </p>
<p>Und das ist wirklich nicht gut.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Kommentar zu Linked local library data simplified von Lukas Koster</title>
		<link>http://jakoblog.de/2012/01/10/linked-local-library-data-simplified/comment-page-1/#comment-303378</link>
		<dc:creator>Lukas Koster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 15:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jakoblog.de/?p=1214#comment-303378</guid>
		<description>Hi Jakob, thanks for this reaction on my post. I understand that you have a problem with an extra level or entity in the Bibliographic or FRBR model. My short reply is: so what?
Looking more closely at your and my reasoning I think we are discussing on different levels. ;-)
Even more, I think we are in complete agreement.

My extra Holding entity is on the conceptual level. Given the separation of the shared global generic descriptions of bibliographic material (whether there are three or two entities there) and the local holding information, there has to be a link between these two. I call this ‘Holding’, which can be considered a linking entity between two other entities in a conceptual model (like in an Entity Relationship Diagram). The Holding entity has extra value since we can have more than one item of a work/edition in a specific library.
I was trying to demonstrate that the FRBR model does not cater for this. In fact, as far as I’m concerned, we should split FRBR into a shared global model (with one, two or three entities, or whatever is best) and a local holdings model.

When implementing a conceptual model, especially in the relational database world (which is my original background) it is not uncustomary that entities on a conceptual level disappear as such and are embedded as links in a table, especially in the case of these pure intermediate entities, consisting only of external IDs (‘Foreign keys’) without any extra information of its own.
This is exactly what you show in your valid examples, as far as I can see.

My ‘Holding’ entity could also have been uniquely identified by the URI (or Primary key in ERD terms) of the Library plus the URI of the Manifestation (or Edition or Work or whatever thing we use in the shared global environment). I was just following the rule of thumb that everything should have its own URI, maybe somewhat too enthusiastically.

Anyway, in this case the link from an Item to the conceptual Holding, implemented in a relational database table would contain the IDs of the Library and the Manifestation/Edition, instead of the ID of the separate Holding record (which in turn would only contain the two IDs of the Library and the Manifestation/Edition).
Which is exactly what you do with the DAIA/SOBR model Item entity.

This is perfectly OK for physical local library items, but what about digital online stuff? I guess you would have something like this: ID of Article online + ID of Library. No ID of Item/Exemplar, because there isn’t any. But we do need availability and access conditions here, as you state in your Request for comments: final specification of DAIA post. How would you call this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jakob, thanks for this reaction on my post. I understand that you have a problem with an extra level or entity in the Bibliographic or FRBR model. My short reply is: so what?<br />
Looking more closely at your and my reasoning I think we are discussing on different levels. <img src='http://jakoblog.de/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Even more, I think we are in complete agreement.</p>
<p>My extra Holding entity is on the conceptual level. Given the separation of the shared global generic descriptions of bibliographic material (whether there are three or two entities there) and the local holding information, there has to be a link between these two. I call this ‘Holding’, which can be considered a linking entity between two other entities in a conceptual model (like in an Entity Relationship Diagram). The Holding entity has extra value since we can have more than one item of a work/edition in a specific library.<br />
I was trying to demonstrate that the FRBR model does not cater for this. In fact, as far as I’m concerned, we should split FRBR into a shared global model (with one, two or three entities, or whatever is best) and a local holdings model.</p>
<p>When implementing a conceptual model, especially in the relational database world (which is my original background) it is not uncustomary that entities on a conceptual level disappear as such and are embedded as links in a table, especially in the case of these pure intermediate entities, consisting only of external IDs (‘Foreign keys’) without any extra information of its own.<br />
This is exactly what you show in your valid examples, as far as I can see.</p>
<p>My ‘Holding’ entity could also have been uniquely identified by the URI (or Primary key in ERD terms) of the Library plus the URI of the Manifestation (or Edition or Work or whatever thing we use in the shared global environment). I was just following the rule of thumb that everything should have its own URI, maybe somewhat too enthusiastically.</p>
<p>Anyway, in this case the link from an Item to the conceptual Holding, implemented in a relational database table would contain the IDs of the Library and the Manifestation/Edition, instead of the ID of the separate Holding record (which in turn would only contain the two IDs of the Library and the Manifestation/Edition).<br />
Which is exactly what you do with the DAIA/SOBR model Item entity.</p>
<p>This is perfectly OK for physical local library items, but what about digital online stuff? I guess you would have something like this: ID of Article online + ID of Library. No ID of Item/Exemplar, because there isn’t any. But we do need availability and access conditions here, as you state in your Request for comments: final specification of DAIA post. How would you call this?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Kommentar zu Request for comments: final specification of DAIA von Linked local library data simplified &#171; Jakoblog — Das Weblog von Jakob Voß</title>
		<link>http://jakoblog.de/2012/01/06/request-for-comments-final-specification-of-daia/comment-page-1/#comment-303127</link>
		<dc:creator>Linked local library data simplified &#171; Jakoblog — Das Weblog von Jakob Voß</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jan 2012 12:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jakoblog.de/?p=1204#comment-303127</guid>
		<description>[...] talked about a Simplified Ontology for Bibliographic Resources (SOBR) which is mainly based on the DAIA data model. We are going to align both data models and I hope that the next libraries will first [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] talked about a Simplified Ontology for Bibliographic Resources (SOBR) which is mainly based on the DAIA data model. We are going to align both data models and I hope that the next libraries will first [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Kommentar zu Can SOBR help publishing library holdings? von Linked local library data simplified &#171; Jakoblog — Das Weblog von Jakob Voß</title>
		<link>http://jakoblog.de/2011/12/02/can-sobr-help-publishing-library-holdings/comment-page-1/#comment-303126</link>
		<dc:creator>Linked local library data simplified &#171; Jakoblog — Das Weblog von Jakob Voß</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jan 2012 12:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jakoblog.de/?p=1176#comment-303126</guid>
		<description>[...] and consuming library loan information as linked open data&#8221; (see slides) and I talked about a Simplified Ontology for Bibliographic Resources (SOBR) which is mainly based on the DAIA data model. We are going to align both data models and I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and consuming library loan information as linked open data&#8221; (see slides) and I talked about a Simplified Ontology for Bibliographic Resources (SOBR) which is mainly based on the DAIA data model. We are going to align both data models and I [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Kommentar zu Request for comments: final specification of DAIA von jakob</title>
		<link>http://jakoblog.de/2012/01/06/request-for-comments-final-specification-of-daia/comment-page-1/#comment-302989</link>
		<dc:creator>jakob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 18:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jakoblog.de/?p=1204#comment-302989</guid>
		<description>I found some overlap with the Open Publication Distribution System (OPDS), especially its &lt;a href=&quot;http://opds-spec.org/acquisition&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Acquisition relations&lt;/a&gt;. Another system of availability information is NCIP circulation status which seems to reuse Z39.50 circulation status. There are 25 possible values: available (0), undefined (1), onOrder (2), notAvailable (3), onLoan (4), onLoanUntilRecall (5), inProcess (6), recalled (7), onHold (8), waitingToBeMadeAvailable (9), inTransit (10), claimedReturnedOrNeverBorrowed (11), lost (12), missingBeingTraced (13), supplied (14), inBinding (15), inRepair (16), pendingTransfer (17), missingOverdue (18), withdrawn (19), weeded (20), unreserved (21), damaged (22), nonCirculating (23), other (24)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found some overlap with the Open Publication Distribution System (OPDS), especially its <a href="http://opds-spec.org/acquisition" rel="nofollow">Acquisition relations</a>. Another system of availability information is NCIP circulation status which seems to reuse Z39.50 circulation status. There are 25 possible values: available (0), undefined (1), onOrder (2), notAvailable (3), onLoan (4), onLoanUntilRecall (5), inProcess (6), recalled (7), onHold (8), waitingToBeMadeAvailable (9), inTransit (10), claimedReturnedOrNeverBorrowed (11), lost (12), missingBeingTraced (13), supplied (14), inBinding (15), inRepair (16), pendingTransfer (17), missingOverdue (18), withdrawn (19), weeded (20), unreserved (21), damaged (22), nonCirculating (23), other (24)</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Kommentar zu How to encode the availability of documents von Request for comments: final specification of DAIA &#171; Jakoblog — Das Weblog von Jakob Voß</title>
		<link>http://jakoblog.de/2009/10/23/how-to-encode-the-availability-of-documents/comment-page-1/#comment-302669</link>
		<dc:creator>Request for comments: final specification of DAIA &#171; Jakoblog — Das Weblog von Jakob Voß</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 10:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jakoblog.de/?p=772#comment-302669</guid>
		<description>[...] its fourth year of development (see my previous posts from 2009) DAIA seems to have enough momentum to finally get accepted in practice. We use it in GBV library [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] its fourth year of development (see my previous posts from 2009) DAIA seems to have enough momentum to finally get accepted in practice. We use it in GBV library [...]</p>
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